Wikipedia

Template talk:Wikipedia policies and guidelines

WikiProject Policy and Guidelines  (Defunct)
WikiProject icon This template is within the scope of WikiProject Policy and Guidelines, a project which is currently considered to be defunct.
 
Emblem-important.svg See WP:PROPOSAL for Wikipedia's procedural policy on the creation of new guidelines and policies. See how to contribute to Wikipedia guidance for recommendations regarding the creation and updating of policy and guideline pages.

WMF policies [ edit ]

The WMF's internal "Values" document for employees is not a policy, and does not have any practical relevance to Wikipedia. Same for the WMF's donor FAQ. Both of these should be removed from the template, in my opinion. The "Friendly space policy" for in-person conferences and events also does not really fit among Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and should be removed.

(It might also make sense to add the wmf:Terms of Use, which are binding on Wikipedia users.) --Yair rand (talk) 21:04, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Yair rand, I agree with you on the Values, FAQ, and Terms of Use. I have made the necessary changes. I don't agree about the Friendly Space Policy. Some of the current policies on this template regard off-wiki conduct (threats of harm, paid editing, etc). That said, happy to hear what others have to say. « Gonzo fan2007(talk) @ 15:31, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Colors [ edit ]

I have (as far as I know) a normal human color perception ability. The colors used for the policies (#118811) and that used for Blue check.svg guidelines (#0077A4) are almost indistinguishable from each other. I'd suggest Check-green.svg (#008000) (#00FF00) for policies and Black check.svg (#000000) for guidelines. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 21:23, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Or maybe some other symbol for guidelines, like Eo circle grey pause.svg? —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 17:59, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
Hi AlanM1. One of the problems with making the changes you recommend is {{Policy}} (and its various sub-templates) and {{Guideline}} (and its various sub-templates) use the green and blue checks. Thus, making a change here may necessitate a larger change to those family of templates to maintain consistency. I generally agree with you and actually recommended an alternative when it was last brought up a few years ago here. It may just need to be discussed at a larger venue, such as the WP:VP, to gain some consensus. « Gonzo fan2007(talk) @ 21:01, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
@Gonzo fan2007: Thanks. I posted a link to this section earlier today at Wikipedia talk:Policies and guidelines#Icons. I'll follow your suggestion and do the same for WP:VP. I recognize there may be (hopefully a few) other templates that would be (easily) changed. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 22:25, 14 July 2020 (UTC)



Just a suggestion regarding the blue checkbox [ edit ]

Since the blue checkbox: Blue check.svg

is very much indistinguishable from the Green Check: Green check.svg

why not swap it with:

This other blue checkbox: Check-blue.svg.

This stands out much better. I have an example of this at the bottom of my user page. W.K.W.W.K...Toss a coin to the witcher, ye valley of plenty 19:40, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Wekeepwhatwekill, there was no consensus at the WP:VP to change the colors of the checkmarks. At this point, I think it best to stick with the "G" and "P", which per WP:ACCESS allows for anyone to see and understand the sybmol. « Gonzo fan2007(talk) @ 14:55, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Protected edit request 8 September 2020 [ edit ]

The P and G characters should have alt text. –LaundryPizza03 (d) 14:46, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

An example of the code that results in those letters is:
  |group1 = '''<span style="color:#118811;">{{Large|P}}</span>'''
So those letters are not images and instead are just text letters that are enlarged and color-coded. Since they are not images and do not allow for "alt text", this is a  Not done. Both letters are explained in the |below= parameter at the bottom of the template. Thank you for your suggestion! P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 17:20, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
If there is a way to convert those letters to images, then add alt text, that would be preferred. But that technical expertise is out of my wheelhouse. « Gonzo fan2007(talk) @ 20:01, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
ToLaundryPizza03 and Gonzo fan2007: done, and thank you for focusing on accessibility issues!P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 09:40, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
@Paine Ellsworth, Gonzo fan2007, and LaundryPizza03: I've restored the actual letters and added {{abbr}} tags, for accessibility. Aside from looking much better in my view, it retains the traditional colors, and still has the mouseover text. See Special:Diff/977521605/982357958 for the differences. Best, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 17:07, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
Hi L235, although I appreciate what you were trying to do with restoring the colors, there was already a general consensus to go in a certain direction above. And per the {{Abbr}}, Using it to generate tooltips elsewhere is a misuse of the underlying HTML and causes accessibility problems. What ideally should happen is for the P and G to be colorized pictures with alt text. If you are ale to do this, I think that would be a helpful change. « Gonzo fan2007(talk) @ 20:27, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
@Gonzo fan2007: "P" and "G" are indeed proper uses of {{abbr}}. The documentation for that template says that it should be used for "abbreviation, acronym, or initialism"; "P" and "G" are indeed abbreviations for "Policies" and "Guidelines" – otherwise, what do they represent? Using images to represent text is less accessible, isn't it? Further, the images of the letters leave jarring spacing and don't look like they're even of the same font. Additionally, on this very template the {{abbr}} template is used to generate numerous tooltips (see the "(?)" symbols with tooltips), none of which are abbreviations for anything, unlike the "P" and "G" which do properly stand for "Policies" and "Guidelines". If you are worried about the use of {{abbr}}, I think those are a significantly bigger concern than the "P" and "G". Best, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 20:35, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
To« Gonzo fan2007: I agree with Kevin on this, and I disagree with your revert back to my rendition. I tried to find letters on Commons (they have to be free of copyright concerns) that were the right colors and fonts, but I couldn't and so had to try to get the black letters in similar, but not the same, fonts. I've been working with accessibility issues for many years, and the {{abbr}} template is a small issue compared with most accessibility issues on Wikipedia. It would take a single Wikignome several lifetimes to add all the |alt= parameters that are needed in image files just here on Wikipedia, let alone all the Wikipedias. And Kevin's correct about the use of the abbr template being a non-issue since P and G are indeed abbreviations. So please, I think we should return this template back to Kevin's version. P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 09:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
After a little pondering, you guys are right. This works better. I have self-reverted. Cheers, « Gonzo fan2007(talk) @ 17:27, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
Thank you very much, « Gonzo fan2007, and there is the added benefit of the colors used for accessibility contrast! P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 18:24, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
What is this?